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superhighschoollevelooc2014-02-19 11:11 pm
monomods) wrote in superhighschoollevelooc2014-02-19 11:11 pm
Feedback Post!
Hello darlings, sorry this has been so long in coming! We wanted to make sure that we had everything straight for what we’re going to change and what we’re going to keep the same. So bear with us while we run down the proposed changes, and absolutely feel free to give your own feedback in the comments. This post is open for everyone to reply to, not just players from round one, but anon commenting is disabled.
Overall, the trial system will remain unchanged in round 2. However, along with our overall more strict look at activity, we’re going to be much more strict about the required tag-in count. Remember, temporary hiatuses are still just fine as long as we the mods know about them. If you completely miss an investigation and trial without telling the mods, we will contact you about your character becoming the next victim.
The investigation system also seemed to come down to almost an art form by the end, so that too will remain mostly unchanged. However, one thing is that the amount of Evidence Bullets to be found will be stated at the beginning of the investigation, with a running tally being kept as the investigation progresses. This is to attempt to sustain activity through the investigation.
Death Rolls will be done on Sunday of the week before that death is slated to happen. This will effectively give the involved parties two weeks to hammer out the details of the crime, as opposed to the 3-5 days we tried to go for this round. This is simply because some of our best murders in round one were the ones that were planned more extensively, and we want round 2 to be even better than round 1.
There will be far fewer NPCs, especially in the endgame. We can’t say much plotwise, but we can say that aside from our beloved series mascot Monobear there will only be one other major mod-played NPC in the game.
There also won’t be any Hope Stars to turn in for regains. Instead, we’ve come up with a new system that involves much less HTML and mod tears. Every 20-comment thread will be worth a monocoin to be used in the Monomono Machine, which will be stocked with regainable items from the player characters. Unfortunately, it’s also going to be stocked with 90 other items from the actual Dangan Ronpa games. With every thread, there’s a 1/10 chance of regaining a player item, and a one in two chance of regaining one of your items.
Additional app sections: there will be two new sections, and an additional requirement for a third.
Character Underwear - exactly what it says on the tin. What kind of drawers does your character wear?
Regainable items - a list of five physical items from your character to go in the Monomono machine.
Canon Point - since round two will have memory loss, we ask that you give us two canon points, one that your character will remember and one that they will eventually regain memories of. Characters reapped from round 1 will automatically have “Post-round one of DRP” as their second canon point, although you are allowed to choose an earlier point for their first canon point. This includes SDR2s and DR1 survivors who appeared in round one. Round 1 reapps (that is, the 20 player characters, not counting DR1s and SDR2s) will count as their own canon, meaning that there is a “cast cap” of four round 1 reapps for round 2. More details on these sections and who’s appable and who’s not when we get the new app written up.
Round 2 will have 30 available character slots. In addition, we’re raising the cast cap to four characters per canon/company.
Round 2 will also have a much more strict AC (for characters who are still alive - dead characters still just have to check in as a formality): Two ten-comment threads with two different characters per week. AC threads can still come from the weekly mingle log, the body discovery/investigation log, or any player-posted logs from the check period, but again since the trials have their own activity requirements they are ineligible for the activity check. Failure to meet AC without informing the mods will result in a strike. Two weeks in a row will result in an automatic death roll. AC will go up on Sunday for the previous Sunday-Friday, and will close at 00:00 (EST) on the following Friday.
We would like to hear your feedback on what you thought about switching to a 3:1 OOC:IC day ratio for the endgame. Did this work for everyone? Would it work better if it was longer? Shorter? We do know that next time we will finagle the final trial to be OOCly on a Thursday+Friday+Saturday.
If there’s anything else that you think of that didn’t work, or that worked particularly well, please leave us some feedback! We want round 2 to be even more fun than round 1, and to do that we need to work out the bugs in the system.
Once again, thank you all so much for helping to make Dangan Roleplay such a phenomenal experience. It’s been a pleasure to mod, and we hope that it’s been just as much of a pleasure to play in. Thank you all, and see you again for Round Two!
Overall, the trial system will remain unchanged in round 2. However, along with our overall more strict look at activity, we’re going to be much more strict about the required tag-in count. Remember, temporary hiatuses are still just fine as long as we the mods know about them. If you completely miss an investigation and trial without telling the mods, we will contact you about your character becoming the next victim.
The investigation system also seemed to come down to almost an art form by the end, so that too will remain mostly unchanged. However, one thing is that the amount of Evidence Bullets to be found will be stated at the beginning of the investigation, with a running tally being kept as the investigation progresses. This is to attempt to sustain activity through the investigation.
Death Rolls will be done on Sunday of the week before that death is slated to happen. This will effectively give the involved parties two weeks to hammer out the details of the crime, as opposed to the 3-5 days we tried to go for this round. This is simply because some of our best murders in round one were the ones that were planned more extensively, and we want round 2 to be even better than round 1.
There will be far fewer NPCs, especially in the endgame. We can’t say much plotwise, but we can say that aside from our beloved series mascot Monobear there will only be one other major mod-played NPC in the game.
There also won’t be any Hope Stars to turn in for regains. Instead, we’ve come up with a new system that involves much less HTML and mod tears. Every 20-comment thread will be worth a monocoin to be used in the Monomono Machine, which will be stocked with regainable items from the player characters. Unfortunately, it’s also going to be stocked with 90 other items from the actual Dangan Ronpa games. With every thread, there’s a 1/10 chance of regaining a player item, and a one in two chance of regaining one of your items.
Additional app sections: there will be two new sections, and an additional requirement for a third.
Character Underwear - exactly what it says on the tin. What kind of drawers does your character wear?
Regainable items - a list of five physical items from your character to go in the Monomono machine.
Canon Point - since round two will have memory loss, we ask that you give us two canon points, one that your character will remember and one that they will eventually regain memories of. Characters reapped from round 1 will automatically have “Post-round one of DRP” as their second canon point, although you are allowed to choose an earlier point for their first canon point. This includes SDR2s and DR1 survivors who appeared in round one. Round 1 reapps (that is, the 20 player characters, not counting DR1s and SDR2s) will count as their own canon, meaning that there is a “cast cap” of four round 1 reapps for round 2. More details on these sections and who’s appable and who’s not when we get the new app written up.
Round 2 will have 30 available character slots. In addition, we’re raising the cast cap to four characters per canon/company.
Round 2 will also have a much more strict AC (for characters who are still alive - dead characters still just have to check in as a formality): Two ten-comment threads with two different characters per week. AC threads can still come from the weekly mingle log, the body discovery/investigation log, or any player-posted logs from the check period, but again since the trials have their own activity requirements they are ineligible for the activity check. Failure to meet AC without informing the mods will result in a strike. Two weeks in a row will result in an automatic death roll. AC will go up on Sunday for the previous Sunday-Friday, and will close at 00:00 (EST) on the following Friday.
We would like to hear your feedback on what you thought about switching to a 3:1 OOC:IC day ratio for the endgame. Did this work for everyone? Would it work better if it was longer? Shorter? We do know that next time we will finagle the final trial to be OOCly on a Thursday+Friday+Saturday.
If there’s anything else that you think of that didn’t work, or that worked particularly well, please leave us some feedback! We want round 2 to be even more fun than round 1, and to do that we need to work out the bugs in the system.
Once again, thank you all so much for helping to make Dangan Roleplay such a phenomenal experience. It’s been a pleasure to mod, and we hope that it’s been just as much of a pleasure to play in. Thank you all, and see you again for Round Two!
no subject
Anyway, first and foremost: congratulations on the successful first round! I can tell that both the players and the mods have put a lot into the game. It's been enormously fun stalking threads and following plotlines. I've had a lot of fun watching from the sidelines and theorizing with a couple of other like-minded friends.
In my feedback, I'm going to be talking largely about the game as a whole. If any of the players are interested in detailed feedback about their particular characters, I'd be happy to give it to them. I'm canon-blind for several of the series in question, but I'd be happy to give my thoughts about how they were presented in-game.
I feel that there were a lot of things that went right, so I'll touch on my favorites:
- The mechanics of picking the killer and victim worked really well. Up until stuff went down, it was impossible to tell what was going to happen. The murders were fun, creative and interesting see investigated.
- I think the mods playing Monobear and Monomi really helped sell the setting. Their near-constant presence really helped make them feel like a part of the cast. They were a real delight to read and I was excited to see them every time they showed up!
- I actually really liked how regains worked in this round. I liked how it brought a piece of game narrative (hope shards) and turned it into something practical for the roleplay narrative (regaining powers).
- Using big hub posts for each week was a really smart idea. It was very easy to keep track of what was going, especially for an outsider.
- Even though it was only revealed recently, I think that the recyclebin was an awesome way to keep all of the dead characters relevant and their players active in the game. The threads in there are a real goldmine!
- I think that 3 OOC Days:1 IC day was a very smart move for the end-game. While it made the endgame feel like it was dragging on a bit, I feel like this system would be good to use for more intense parts of the game, such as trials and investigations. This would give a little more "breathing room" for people in unusual timezones to participate.
Here are some points that I feel that could be improved on:
Castmates. Instead of increasing the number of characters that can be played from the same canon, I feel like it would be smarter to decrease that number to two--or, better yet, have every character in the new round be a Lone Canon Warrior. The coolest thing about Dangan Roleplay was seeing the cross-canon relationships that developed between the characters: they were really and truly strangers who had to work together to survive.
Unfortunately, from the outside I saw a clear pattern that, if a character had a castmate, they were much more likely to tag their own castmate(s) than other characters on the island. While Jimmy and Aradia are notable exceptions to this rule, the other characters with castmates felt much more closed off than the characters who were there on their own. Reducing or eliminating the potential for castmates would fix this problem.
After mulling it over, I have to admit that I'm a little hesitant about the thought of Round 1 characters being able to apply for Round 2. While they can only take up four slots, it honestly seems a little unfair to any incoming new players. Would it be possible for these four slots to be involved in a more NPC-like role, or for them to show up as pivotal endgame characters instead? I like the idea of previous characters being able to influence the second round, but I don't like the idea of them being involved in a second mutual killing game.
Trials. While, overall, I feel that the trials and their investigations were a success, there were some points that I feel could have been improved on. There weren't a lot of trials that had true-blue Dangan Ronpa style banter; a lot of them seemed to end in premature confessions from the culprit, instead of the survivors slowly but surely unmasking them. Instead of the details of the crimes unfolding blow-by-blow, all of the details came out at once. A good exception to this was the trial for Jumba's death, which I would say was the best trial in the game. There were plenty of great moments in the trials, but I think the format could be touched up a bit.
Endgame. Overall, I felt that the endgame was clumsy in comparison to the rest of the game. It felt less like a unique roleplaying experience and more like a gushing letter to Spike Chunsoft about how much you guys loved the past two games. My thoughts on the endgame are pretty complex, so I'm going to try and break them down into bullets:
- The survivor pool was a little lackluster; out of the seven, four of them were either inactive, had limited CR, or both. It really felt like the Roxy, Jimmy and Madison show. I don't think Uuji even participated in the final log which, by all statements made on the mod account, should have caused the final trial to fail.
In general, I also felt like the entire cast had a few too many heroes and do-gooders. There were some really great morally ambiguous characters (Madison, Lysandre, and Sam are the first three that come to mind) their personalities felt drowned out in the much "louder" narrative of the heroes. On the plus-side, I really felt like the survivors were a very tight-knit, emotionally close group. It was very enjoyable to see them band so closely together.
- The survivors had a lot of information handed to them way too early. As soon as Hinata and co appeared on the island, all of the suspense was sucked out of the game. It made the endgame honestly kind of underwhelming, especially when the characters were given the answers to some huge questions in the game before the onset of the final trial. Because the characters all knew so much ahead of time, any conflict in regards to the forced shutdown, while well-played on Madison's part, felt rather token. The result of the final trial felt decided long before it really was.
- I felt that the endgame of the RP borrowed a bit heavily from the endgames of Dangan Ronpa (DR) and Super Dangan Ronpa 2. Knowing spoilers for those games made it really easy to know or guess what was going to happen. As such, the ending didn't feel very unique to the game's very unique set of characters and circumstances.
- The ending of the game felt dissonant with the endings of DR and SDR2. Both of those games had survivor pools that were faced to make enormously difficult decisions and their own horrible mistakes. At the end of the games, the defeat of the mastermind was not necessarily a "happy" ending for the characters. In DR, it meant that the survivors were forced to confront a post-apocalyptic world; in SDR2, it meant that they had to confront a post-apocalyptic world, the fact that they caused that post-apocalyptic world, presumed body horror considering Shenanigans, and the fact that their friends were pretty much vegetables. Both games had very powerful endings, largely in part because it was such a struggle to get there.
In comparison, the RP's ending felt very ... convenient. There was a very pointed happy ending that, to be frank, came off as very saccharine. The dead characters revived, the culprits were forgiven, everybody gets to go home and/or join the Future Foundation, even Sam the horrible eldritch abomination. I like good endings when they're earned; I can't honestly say that as an outside reader, it felt that the survivor pool earned their good ending in the same way that the survivors of the games did.
- Finally, endgame just plain took too long to get there. The last few weeks of the game honestly dragged on for a very long time, when not much happened ICly.
Thank you very much for reading all of my thoughts. They're a little disjointed, but I hope they make sense. /)\\\(\
no subject
Unfortunately, it's hard from a mod perspective to police the trials in an attempt to get a more Dangan Ronpa feel to it. In Dangan Roleplay, as opposed to in the games, everyone essentially has a chance to "wear the protag pants," as we lovingly referred to it for round 1. Ideally, we would like for the trials to seem more organically Dangan Ronpa, but practically we haven't come up with a dependable way to implement the kinds of mechanics that steer the trials in-game (MTBs, Climax Inference) without sacrificing some player autonomy.
I can also comment on the ending because I can safely guarantee that round one is very much going to be the exception that proves the rule. We admit that the endgame for round 1 came across as blatant wish-fulfillment (we also admit that it was), but round 1 was an experiment in many ways and since we weren't even sure if there was going to be a round 2 while we were planning the overall plot for round 1, we wanted to go big or stay home. It (along with RecycleBin) was an experiment in trying to keep players of dead characters from feeling shafted or shut out (a problem obviously not present in the games, since the games' sole protagonist obviously survives). In some ways, it was a success, but we also learned enough about what not to do in later rounds to avoid copying the same formula verbatim.
Do you think that perma-death (that is, whether or not there's an afterlife comm like RB, the victims and executed culprits don't get to come back to life at all, and are rendered unappable for later rounds) would help? It was an option that we've considered a couple of times, but ultimately shied away from for a few reasons.
Thank you again for your thoughtful reply, and we will touch on your commentary about cast caps and round one reapps after I've had a chance to discuss it with my co-mod.
no subject
In an general feedback, I'm really glad to see the format will be not real time for trials anymore. I saw confusion among the players and the cast as to when some things took place, so this is the best way to fix that! A real time schedule in DWRP is sort of encouraged, but I'd like to offer the suggestion to, like you did in endgame, move away from it whenever you and the players deem it necessary, especially considering not all players can be around every weekend, and that undoubtedly caused some trouble during the trials.
Seeing some of the players very involved with the mods from the get-go (ie. the comment that you had Veronica and Sam's encounter planned for awhile, the secrets that lead up to it) was very encouraging as a potential player. It's a lot of trust given to the players to not let anything slip, a lot of cooperation, and a lot more like telling a group story than anything else, which for a small game tends to work best.
I'll chime in a bit on the subject of reapps. I loved the characters from this round, but having someone who knows the ropes -- or even appears to, despite how different the next round will be -- really changes the game a lot, and that I'm a little hesitant about. The suggestion of them being potential NPCs is a very good one, to still include the players/characters but not take away the experience from anyone new who wants to play.
I had a few questions about the new app sections, but since you guys are getting them written up with more detail, I will await this instead of cluttering here. ^^
Overall a huge congrats for getting through your first round with such a high-intensity and time-consuming game! It was always exciting and fun to follow along, from an outsider's prospective. :)
no subject
Babbling aside, here is my feedback for the game:
- I deeply approve of the proposition of a 3:1 OOC:IC day ratio. While it's still highly possible that the trials may end up solved within a single OOC day (or a couple of hours, as was the case with the first few trials), having a longer trial period would certainly allow people in funkier timezones to come and do their mandatory trial participation. I struggled to be involved in the trials (or to want to be involved) because of the terrible struggle which is being an RPer who lives in the GMT timezone and works all weekend, every weekend, and I know there were other players experiencing a similar dilemma.
My only concern with the 3:1 OOC:IC ratio for trials is, if the trial does end up being solved within the first day (as may continue being the case with the first few at least), then that leaves two OOC days for people to twiddle their thumbs unless there are trial threads not directly pertaining to the evidence to catch up on. There's also the issue that those in finicky timezones may still find they're not able to actually participate in the trials (as opposed to rolling up after the fact like "wow guys that sure was a thing").
I'm not sure what solution to propose to this, but I thought it was worth pointing out. Chances are that it might actually be okay having the two extra days to wrap up on threads before the next IC week begins, but I guess the mods could always decide to wrap up a trial early if everything has already come to light, all characters have checked in and the bulk of the playerbase is in agreement for things to go ahead early.
- RE: The Recycle Bin and dead characters From a completely selfish perspective, I loved the saccharine ending. Loved it! All the dead characters got to wake up and everyone was reunited before choosing whether to go home or to stay on at the Future Foundation. I know you guys have already admitted that this round of the game was straight-up wish fulfilment, and I am right here indulging in it with you because I love "everything worked out" endings.
...Buuuut yes, as much as I personally enjoyed it, the ending did...feel like it invalidated the struggles made throughout the rest of the game. I would agree with the notion that maybe the ending would have been more powerful if there had been that sense of loss and characters having to live with their mistakes and the fact the lives of people they cared about had been snuffed-out forever. To hear that the nicely-wrapped-and-tied-with-a-bow happy ending of S1 will be a one-off makes me all the more excited for round 2.
That said, it was really great how the dead characters weren't entirely out of the game and still had a means by which to participate, which was good especially for the characters who didn't have a very long run in the game at all (a moment of silence for Page and Dahlia, please). But for a long while it wasn't certain what the fates of the characters in the 'Bin would be, and I know I was fully aware myself that there was a chance the dead characters would never escape the dead island or would indeed meet their demise there.
Personally, that idea was perfectly okay to me and I would have been satisfied if the dead islanders had perhaps found a way to assist the live characters from behind the scenes, only to meet the tragic end of being stuck on the island forever or the program failing and their minds being wiped. So I think having continued participation for the dead characters would be a good thing, but that doesn't have to mean foregoing the gravity of permadeath if you're able to find a way to work the dead characters into the plot without saving them (especially since we now know ghosts exist in this universe).
- 4 characters per cast feels too much to me. I am in agreement with Silvie here in that I felt the cap of three characters per cast was too generous this round, and four characters per cast for round 2 feels just as much so (if not more, despite the larger number of players). Personally I feel you would be much better keeping the cap to three or even reducing it down to two to ensure the optimum amount of tagging outside of casts.
...In fact, I can tell this is going to be seen as a hugely unpopular opinion to some people, but I would actually advise having only one character per cast. My main reason for this (outside of the fact it would completely eliminate the option for certain players to interact primarily or only with their cast mate/s) is this: while for this first round everybody was civil with one another and got along, and from my understanding all the players who shared casts already knew one another, round 2 has garnered a much wider pool of interest than the first round.
As such, my concern is that players who are liable to conflict with one another or have clashing interpretations of their canons may end up stuck in a cast together. In any normal game this wouldn't be as big an issue, since in a game with a much bigger playerbase than 30 (and shrinking weekly) you can limit your interactions even with castmates if things aren't working out. In a game like DRRP where the characters and their affiliations are constantly under scrutiny due to the nature of the trials and the killing-game environment, I can see there being issues if there were characters who never interacted despite being close in canon.
While I would like to believe that in such a tiny, close-knit game environment everyone could manage to retain themselves and be polite to one another, it's simply not realistic for everybody to get along 100% of the time, and at least if every character is in a different cast it will be easier for any players who do have conflicts to give one another a sufficiently wide berth. While I'm sure you mods will do all you can to regulate player behaviour as before, it might be worth it to reduce the potential for grievances from the start.
...I think that about wraps up all the points I had to make! Although, I will add as a flippant afterthought that I do like the sound of the monocoins regain function and the potential for shenanigans in not knowing whether a character will manage to reclaim their own possession or not. Okay, I'm done for real now! Thank you again for all your hard work with round 1, and I shall look forward to being perma-glued to the edge of my seat once again in May!
no subject
1) trial system: The only thing I could mention here is that, like some of the others, I found the confessions occasionally disconcerting as they generally happened when we reached the comment count regardless of whether or not the characters themselves had worked out what had happened (even if they were close to it, or nowhere near it), so extending that happening past the comment count to when it was solved/timed out might be more interesting/allow characters to work through it on their own more? I suppose the lack of arguments against doing things was also sometimes disappointing (since only Archer really argued about not doing it) but I suspect that was due to our character make-up more than anything else. I did enjoy all the trials I was part of, but that's my feedback there.
2) investigation system: I actually do not think I'd like to be outright told about how many Evidence Bullets there were to be found, although being told when we found them all is more okay with me? Like, that room for error keeps things interesting rather than knowing outright what we have to do.
3) death rolls: I think doing them in advance like that is actually a great idea, since more time to plot is a good thing. At one point I did remark to Megan that rolling out deaths further in advance would be a good thing (though I can see why rolling them all at game start wouldn't be workable, esp if it's used on inactive players now).
4) regains: My only concern here is that if character powers are tied to items rather than nebulous powers, characters with natural powers would have significant advantages, tbh.
5) cast cap: I do not favor lowering the cast cap to lone canon warriors like other people have checked in saying; while 2 would be all right with me if it had to be lowered, I already know it would throw off a lot of plans for people not even playing close canonmates for round 2, but just applying from the same series.
I can't think of anything else rn and have to run out the door, so.
warning: tl;dr approaching
point list.I think that's covered all of my personal uncertainties about the game, but I can't speak with 100% certainty there; there might be something I've forgotten. If there is, I'll bring it up.
no subject
1) The trial system needs a bit of an overhaul. Locke-mun has stated the reason why for the best. Though implementing some stuff like a mod controlled Hangman's Gambit, player controlled Bullet Time Battle and Closing Arguments. When Roxy kept going after Archer, like a dog after a bone, in the same trial it kinda felt like the Bullet Time Battle in game, then the Nonstop Discussion that the trial was mostly comprised of.
I think part of the problem is that the reveals are done as new top level comments instead of being placed in active existing threads for the players to unravel. I dunno, but having the murderer, victims and mods work together to help push parts of the trial along, without explicitly giving the answer to the players. There are some cases where it's fine to blatantly , re: John's trial. The sylladex flub was completely IC for it to happen as John's control over that thing is...finicky at best.
Which was part of what the Hangman's Gambit part of the trial is for. Many time's those anagrams were there to help the players thinking, and I think as mods you can pull it off.
I think grabbing a bunch of people both that were in game and want to be in game, and doing a mock trail to try and figure out a way to implement the stuff from the game, into the rp might have some merit.
2) Once again agreeing with Locke-mun on returning players, though I am not completely in favor of locking them out. Personally I think a limited amount of slots for them to be able to take, let's say 1/6th of the current available slots, would be smart. So at the current 30 available, that would be 5 possible returning players. Still allows for a good amount of new blood while still having some old blood (whether its a new character or a returning character) in the game.
3) Regain items, while neat bring up the problem of internal powers like Madison, Sam, the Homestucks, and so on. A physical represtation of said powers that can be...I dunno absorbed or something, might be a way to go and fix that.
4) Victims. While the dual murderers were a nice twist, I don't remember a time when a player went on a murder spree and took out two victim players, which was kinda disappointing.
5) Evolving Motives, as part of AC I think having a chance to change or add different motives in game to the mods might be an interesting thing. DR2 most interesting cases were Mikan and Komeda because there motives would not of appeared until that point in time where they had knowledge and what not they shouldn't of.
6)...An unpopular opinion I am sure, but with NISA's localization out I think it would be smart for you two to seriously discuss if you want to stick with Oren's questionable translation and localization effort or go with NISA'S questionable translation and localization effort, or some odd mix of the two.
no subject
1. Not much to say about the trial system that hasn't already been said. It works out perfectly, at least from my perspective, and it'll work just as well next round without any change. I'm sure the slight "figuring it out" problem will be fixed by itself too, what with new players in the game leading to different opinions. As some other players worry, I rather fondly remember the trials. They were all different, and the bits that kept resurfacing were kind of like running gags, although of course I see the problem again with the whole strip search thing, but that's just a thing that needs to be worked out with those planning it. It's not necessarily bad, just a bit frequent. But I'm sure we can make some more different murders next round.
2. I actually liked how we didn't know how much evidence there was. It made for a good amount of paranoid searching, everyone trying to find as much as they can. Like Aradia-mun said, being told when we find all of them is okay though.
3. I am all for the death rolls in advance. My death roll with Crystal was weeks in advance, and it all worked out so well in the end. Things were planned out extensively, and it made for an impressive case. Giving the death rolls in advance will help players come up with better ideas for the murders. Although, with motives coming out each week, perhaps giving the players the motive in advance would work? I don't know. Maybe it'll help if you keep the surprise intact.
4. This is a lot easier than the hope shards by far, and it sounds like quite a bit more fun too. I love the idea of randomly getting other people's objects. It opens a lot more options of interaction. And of course, the whole "people with natural powers" thing might be a problem, but then again it might not be. And it would lead to players wanting to get more coins so they can regain things.
5. I am okay with keeping the cast cap at three, or lowering it to two if you really have to. One of the best things about the game is that while there was a lot of cross-canon interaction, there was still a bit of in-canon stuff going on. It's comforting in a game like this to have canon mates to interact with, and also builds suspense in the case that one of them murders or gets murdered.
6. One last thing to add. I was happy with the ending to the first round. While it might be a bit saccharine, and a bit of a fixer story, a canon like Dangan Ronpa is allowed a happy ending every once in a while. Not to mention that it left a lot of hooks for future rounds. The shsl despair group is alive, The new group is alive and free to help if they wish, it's a very good ending to what could have been a one round game, and now it's a good start to what could be a multiple round story with much more despairing endings than before, thus giving them more weight.
I guess the only problem I had with it was the final trial. Even though the inclusion of the three NPCs was okay, and maybe even a little required, everything had already been painted out, so the end was sort of inevitable. Although I did like the little twist you tried in it with fake naegi.
no subject
1. I think that the endgame switch from day ratio switch was a good idea. So good in fact, I would suggest applying it to the entire run of the game. One of my only real complaints about this round was how funky the pacing worked out ic'ly. There was the whole "something weird is in the water every Thursday night" issue and there was also just the issue of how LONG the game dragged out thanks to the 1:1 ratio. You would think that people would have just learned to stop leaving their cabins on Thursday night after the second or third week. My suggestion to fix this would be to do something like a 1:2 day ratio for mon-thurs and then 1:3 fri-sun for the investigation/trials. That way, we're still having the investigations/trials on the weekend but we're not stuck with the WHY DOES EVERYONE DIE ON FRIDAY thing. Or, honestly, sunday could just be 1:1, start of the week, then the rest of the week is 1:2 with fri-sat being the trial days. Sunday kind of ended up being a wasted day this time around since the executions were usually posted the night of the trial with only a few exceptions. EITHER WAY, the trial portion of things I think worked fine it was really just the downtime that I feel could use some tweaking.
2. Like some other people have said, the ending felt a little...lacking and clumsy. And I say this as someone who was dually involved with it on both the pc and npc level. Do I think it was terrible? No. I don't know exactly what you have planned for round two, but I think it did present a good hook for round 2 and it DID tie everything up neatly. Though it was a little too canon-tied and sometimes things just felt a little forced/unnecessary in the final trial. Actually, the more i think about it, I think my issues lay more with the final trial than the actual ending. The happy ending part didn't bother me at all.
That's really all I had as far as gameplay issues went that are actually something the mods CAN DO something about. (Unfortunately, you can't really MAKE people be active or app more villains so I'm not going to waste my figurative internet breath on that). As far as the changes you've put forth on this post:
1. Investigation system - I don't really think we need to be told how many there are in advance, but I'm also not adamantly opposed to the idea. I just think it worked out fine being told "hey you still have a few left to go.
2. Death Rolls - The murders that were planned out further in advance were without a doubt the stronger cases in this round. So I wholeheartedly agree with this change
even if it's very hard to keep quiet about your plans.3. Regains - This is a much better way to do it, I think. Especially since powers aren't a regain this time. The only thing I'm really iffy on with this is the odds against getting an actual regain vs. getting a canon item. I wonder if maybe getting a coin every ten 10 comments from your character might help with that? So instead of just getting to 20 comments on a single thread and stopping, you could keep going and potentially get several coins out of a single thread. (The number of times I had someone drop a thread on me at 18 or 19 comments this round was maddening). Alternatively: do what they do in the game itself and have the number of coins you put in have an influence on the item you get. Only instead of "more coins means less of a chance of a repeat item" it would be "more coins means a higher chance of getting a regain vs. poop coffee"
4. Cast cap - I don't think it should be lowered. I actually didn't have a problem with it being bumped up to 4 since the app cap itself was being bumped up as well but I really don't think it should be bumped down lower than 3.
5. Trial days - I think it should be left as Fri-Sat-Sun (or just Fri-Sat, since honestly Sunday seemed more like a wasted day than anything else most of the time). Having a trial on weekdays should be avoided at all costs since it interferes with school and/or work and leads to more lulls/dragging
And finally, I have a few issues with things that I've seen on both this feedback post and in the mod plurk from people involved and not involved with the game alike that I'd like to address.
1. I like cross canon CR as much as the next person but with a limited character pool like this, you can be kind of...well, limited. Not EVERY character is going to mesh with every other one, and I don't mean that in just a positive sense. Some characters don't lend themselves well to negative CR either and might even just flat out ignore people they don't get along with/aren't interested in. And if you try and force CR with someone just for the sake of NOT tagging a castmate it can be frustrating. That being said, I do agree that people SHOULDN'T be able to tag JUST their castmates, but I think saying something like ALL YOUR AC HAS TO COME FROM A CROSS CANON CHARACTER isn't exactly fair either. So maybe say one of your threads HAS to be cross canon but the other doesn't have to? Idk, I just think this is a silly thing to have your panties in a twist over when it really wasn't THAT big of a deal this round.
2. On the subject of people from round one reapping...there are a lot of people who are saying that we shouldn't be able to app in at ALL (be it with a new character or a reapp of the same one we played this time) which just plain isn't fair and is really kind of rude, to be be completely honest. Especially considering that this round was only as successful as it was BECAUSE of those of us who were willing to give this game a shot with absolutely nothing to go on. As long as the people reapping were actually ACTIVE this round and proved that they could handle the pace, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to come back.
...I think this about covers everything but if I think of anything else, I'll let you know!
no subject
Sword brought up the idea of an "emergency out" and while I DON'T think there should be one for cases of "help the game is too fast", there are occasions where life happens and shit could potentially hit the fan in a terrible way. I say there shouldn't be anything for speed because after this round we KNOW what the pace is like. You know going into the game what is expected of you and if you cannot deal with fast-paced games and/or be around on plot-critical days you do not need to be apping to this game. Kind of blunt and maybe a little rude to say, but that's just how it is. It's very frustrating to have what are essentially participation events be the core part of the game and only the same small, consistent core of people actually be involved.
But in cases where a legitimate, unforeseen real-life issue DOES come up and it means that a player cannot continue and needs out asap, perhaps you could pull something along the lines of a Spear of Gungnir. Have them break a rule and get punished for it during the week. Or, pull a Lysandre and accidentally blow themselves up, only actually die instead of just losing a hand. Basically, arrange an "accident" of some kind for drops unrelated to activity issues.
Okay, NOW I think I'm done.
This is probably a lie.no subject
I only have one point to bring up, as everything else I could think of has been mentioned. And that concerns people coming back for round two.
I have no issue with it! But there is something I noticed from my experiences with panfandom games in general. It is not uncommon in games for oldbies to dump info on new comers the moment they show up: which makes sense icly of course! But in a small tense game like this I think any returning characters should have some ic limit to what they can revel to newcomers. Be it a gag order from the Future Foundation, a Class Rule, the mentioned amnesia or something else completely. So that way new characters can't be too 'spoiled'.
That's all I have to bring up! Super excited to see the next round you guys!
no subject
I only have a couple of things to bring up that haven't been said already, and perhaps a few points to discuss regarding some things that have.
1. Re-apps - While I see no issue with allowing them (assuming, as was stated above, that there's a limit on what can be said ICly to new players), I think that people shouldn't be able to app the same character into the game more than twice, if for no better reason than it kind of lends itself to a sense of "what in the good fuck is your luck even, man." Basically, I'd be okay with people playing the same character from Round 1 in Round 2, but I'm decidedly less okay with people bringing them back for a third time.
2. Time ratio - I'm going to respectfully disagree with Katar in saying that I don't think messing with the day ratio is a good idea; it led to things feeling like they were dragging quite a bit in endgame because bluntly put, there's just not a whole lot that happens during the week. It's CR-building, yes, but overall ICly there isn't that much to do and I feel that if anything, it will skew the organic CR feeling to it - one has a different reaction to people they've known for a week than those they've known for a day and a half.
Of course, that still leaves the problem of "what is in the water on Thursdays," but I don't feel that was too much of an IC issue in this round? It was predictable on an OOC level, granted, but that isn't a bad thing due to scheduling reasons; at the same time, I don't think "you'd think people would learn to not leave their cabins on Thursday night" is even a problem due to IC handling - Case 3 was reliant on weather getting worse over time and Thursday was a coincidence; Case 4 involved murderer and victim collaborating; Case 5 actually had the murder happen on Tuesday (MUCH TO EVERYBODY'S DISMAY, UH); Case 6 involved a lot of IC setup. So I don't see why "is there a reason these people don't just sit inside on Thursdays, they are clearly too dumb to live" is even a consideration, given that IC ways can be found around it.
2a. Trials and Investigations - However, I definitely do approve of stretching out the weekends a bit and just assuming that people are recovering for the rest of it, or doing their afterparty thing or whatever. Just saying, this is a good idea.
3. Death Rolls - Speaking as someone who had nearly three weeks to plan our investigation and trial, because that's just how the rolling happened this time around, I definitely approve of the longer timeframe to work things out. I don't think we would have gotten half as far as we managed to with only a three-day timeframe. Good idea, you should feel good, etc.
4. "Emergency Out" - I agree wholeheartedly with Katar; if life happens in such a way that makes play impossible, we should be able to sign up for Gungniring or pulling a Lysandre or something. However, this isn't something that should even be a problem in terms of activity-only wanting-out, because everyone should know what they're getting into by now.
As for the rest, I just kind of want to address a few things that I don't think are plain to the people who are just spectating - stuff that's been brought up over and over again in various venues that I think need to be mentioned.
First of all, the mods do not control when we confess or what direction the trials go in. Speaking as a culprit (and one in a case where multiple confessions were necessary because we felt the need to be needlessly convoluted or something, in b4 "sit the fuck down, Celes"), I was not approached by either of the mods at any point and told to go kick the gambit into high gear, nor was I told to confess at any point after that, and from what I've heard it was the same for most (if not all - I haven't spoken to everybody) of the other culprits in this game. The time we choose to confess is entirely on us.
Secondly, culprits provide their own evidence lists. Again, any issues with reliance on too-convenient or too-obvious evidence is the responsibility of the players. The mods could possibly guide us a bit more and/or ask us to revise, and I think that isn't an unreasonable request, but ultimately the basic structure of the murders and the trials is left up to the players.
This means that the responsibility for fixing this is also (almost entirely) on us. Part of the problem I had with this round was the sheer number of characters who ended up dying for altruistic reasons; while that's fine once in a while, things may have been improved greatly if that had been subverted just a bit. (For example, had Maya tried to kill everyone but only managed to kill Fran in Case 3.) If everyone is killing for noble reasons, it's hard to get them to not confess, because the sort of person that would become a murderer to save everyone is just logically not going to throw the rest of the class under a bus during a trial to save themselves.
Again, I think this is a case where the mods could stand to step up a little and nudge us if things are going that route too often - I don't think altruistic killings should be disallowed, per se, but I also think that people should take alternate routes into consideration, and I think the mods should be willing to kind of poke us and present alternatives for us to consider. Obviously they shouldn't direct the murders, because that's part of the fun, coming up with them, but they should be allowed to suggest - and by that token, if we want to avoid the problem of premature confessions and losing tension in the trials, we're all going to have to work together and fix it ourselves. We're given a lot of freedom to have the sort of trials we want to have, but that means we're also directly responsible for the outcome and whether they're satisfying or not.
tl;dr I HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS but I am really happy with how this round went, honestly; I had a lot of fun, and I'm excited to see what Round 2 brings!
no subject
Speaking again of the trials, this thought has been bouncing around my head all day: have you considered, in addition to having assigned culprit and victim roles, making sure that other characters had certain trial roles to fall back on? While playing DR and reading/watching LPs of SDR2, I've noticed that characters participating in trials tend to fall into particular roles:
Protagonist: A character who has been involved in the investigation, but doesn't necessarily understand how the pieces fit together. (Ex: Makoto and Hinata)
Investigator: A character who has been heavily involved in the murder investigation and has a deeper understanding of the circumstances. Sometimes they guide the Protagonist in their understanding, sometimes they mislead them. Whatever the case, they don't just spill the beans right away at the start of the class: they allow the protagonist to help convince the rest of the class of their theories. (Ex: Kyoko, Byakuya, Nanami)
Witness: A character who has testimony about the murder. This testimony may or may not be truthful. (Ex: Celes, in Trial 2, testified that Chihiro was in the warehouse with a duffel bag and track suit. This testimony was crucial in uncovering the culprit.)
Jury: A member of the jury is a character who, while maybe not as heavily involved in the investigation, is still heavily involved in the trial conversation. They may have some wrong ideas about the murder that need to be cleared up. SDR2 also introduced the concept of jury members throwing out wild ideas out there that just happened to be right.
False Culprit: A character who has been implicated in the murder. To get the trial to move forward, the class needs to eliminate them as a suspect. (Ex: In Trial 3, Hiro was implicated as the culprit despite being totally innocent.)
True Culprit: Exactly what it says on the tin.
Although Dangan Ronpa's static, pre-planned narrative is inherently different from the dynamic, organic narrative of a roleplay, I think there's merit in the idea of assigning other minor roles in the trial. If the culprit and their victim are the stars of the narrative of the trial, false culprits and witnesses would be the support structure that holds it up together. I don't think it's very practical to assign a specific "protagonist" role; I think part of the fun of the trials was watching various characters try their hand at that role.
All of these roles are important. If every character were an investigator, the trials would be over quickly. Without members of the jury bouncing wacky ideas back and forth, there's no "wordplay". False culprits lead to twists and turns, while witness testimony helps banish inconsistencies and pin down culprits. I'm not entirely sure you could assign all these roles before a trial, but I think that figuring out witnesses or false culprits (who don't know everything themselves either) during the extended murder planning period has the opportunity to make trials even more interesting.
I have to admit, I'm relieved to hear that future games won't be mimicking the same formulas or getting a Totally Happy Ending Everybody's Not Dead. Frankly, I don't like narratives where character actions or plot events happen and then there's no consequences or fall-out for them. They just aren't very satisfying to me. Part of what makes the DR and SDR2 narrative so interesting for me, personally, is that there are some very strict consequences for character actions. They both have bittersweet endings--endings that, while they're overall positive, have underlying elements of tragedy.
In regards to perma-death... yes, but in certain ways. I think that the recycle bin was an absolutely fabulous way to keep "dead" characters involved in the game. When those communities were opened up, it was really easy to see that, even though they couldn't affect hands-on narrative of the story, they were still a really important part of the overall narrative. I thought it was one of the smarter ways that you tied the narrative of the roleplay to the narrative of the games; the interactions between SDR2 characters and the characters of the game were very interesting.
In regards to perma-death... to be honest, yes. I think that perma-death is the most logical "consequence" to a mutual killing game. I think that if players aren't prepared to be suddenly removed from the primary narrative of the game, they probably shouldn't be applying to a game devoted to sudden and heart-wrenching character death.
However, I don't think that perma-death is the only consequence that there could be in the narrative of DRRP. If Round 2 continues in a digital setting, I think there are plenty of potential consequences that could be used outside of perma-death:
- Not all of the characters get a chance to "wake up" in the end. How would the ending have felt if, say, Lysandre or Aradia had remained trapped in the recycle bin?
- Characters not being able to return to their own homes. I think one of the more powerful themes of the DR narrative is that both casts experienced a true loss of "home". They may have escaped their mutual killing games, but what kind of life are they going to live after that? (Note: I think Jumba-mun and Madison-mun handled post-game exceptionally well on this subject.)
- Characters suffering from damaged memories. Maybe they can remember what they experienced in the mutual killing game, but what about the circumstances leading to before it? What about their own histories? DR and SDR2 were not shy when it came to playing with those, and I don't think that roleplaying games based off of them should either.
- Character home worlds being affected somehow?
Those were just a couple of elements that could be used to temper endings; a "give and take" between positive and negative elements is very important when it comes to endings.
This has been discussed on plurk already, but thank you very much for taking into consideration my (and others') thoughts on castmates. I think that it's an important issue that deserves attention, thought and discussion. Ideas that have come up about it so far have been really great. :-)
And since
Phew! This one got a little long too... thanks for reading it! Go get yourself a cookie! I'm gonna go get a glass of water...
no subject
- Trials. Really unpopular opinion, but honestly, I think that nothing should change for the trials. Part of the fun (and stress) was the rapid-fire speed of the entire thing. Stretching it out to a 3:1 day ratio would definitely encourage more participation, but it would also take away from the urgency and speed, which is honestly what I liked best about the trials. They genuinely felt like a life-or-death situation (even when everyone got distracted by Maurice/the bunnyplane idea). This is obviously not ideal for all players, but I believe that this should be sort of a caveat for apping: you must be able to be around on trial day - if you have a one-time commitment that's perfectly fine, but if you're apping in and you can't make any of the trials, then we have a problem.
One of the things I've heard people say is that confessions came too easily or the trials felt forced somehow. I will agree that some of the confessions seemed to come out of nowhere, but after experiencing what it was like for myself, I understand completely. Going in there playing the culprit is extremely stressful and the trials are very long; basically the confessions come about because it's wearing the player down as well and once you get to a certain point, you know you're just going to have to let your character explain what happened. I honestly don't think there's anything to be done to change that; I can't come up with a way to make the trials more like Dangan Ronpa, where things are revealed a piece at a time. We got lucky with case 5 in that things slowly were revealed, but I can tell you that none of that was planned at all.
- Investigation. Personally I liked the way things were run when it came to the Evidence Bullets. I preferred having no idea just how many things I was looking for, it encouraged players to think outside the box and search in places that might not be incredibly obvious. While having a set number of bullets won't change that, I feel like it will cheapen the effect of finding something OOCly. There's also the part where the log will most likely just die once everything has been found. People will also be more likely to keep searching if they have a strict number of Evidence Bullets to be found, so we wouldn't be entering any trial without some pieces of evidence, which I thought was very interesting.
- Death Rolls. I'm very pleased that you guys have decided to go with two full weeks to plan out a murder instead of just three days. Some of the most fun I had in this game was plotting to murder someone with Dal, so I hope everyone has enjoyable experiences like that! I don't know if you were planning on it, but I think the motives should all be decided in advance so you can hand them out to the people who were rolled and they can figure out if they want that motive to be a part of the trigger for the murder.
- Motives. This round's motives were very weak. I understand not wanting to crib shamelessly off DR or SDR2's motives, but it felt like there really wasn't much effort being put into the motives. While "Lysandre's marriage to Monomi" was an incredibly funny motive, it definitely wasn't taken seriously and no one was going to kill over it. I think next round all - or at least most - of the motives should be designed to get the characters to kill one another. The snow motive was probably the best, but it didn't work because of the hotel which could provide food, shelter, and a place for literally everyone to stay. It's a good thing to think about in the future - how will the setting effect this motive and will this motive stay relevant? It's also good to think about your cast of characters - this round probably wouldn't have reacted to motives like money, but next round maybe we'll have more selfish characters.
- Applications. I'm going to agree with most of the people here in that I believe that cast caps should be limited. I like the idea of only allowing 2 characters per canon, but even then I think there should be a limit - for example, characters from DRP round 1 should not both be able to reapp into a cast. So, Roxy, John, or Aradia can app back in, but not two of them, if that makes sense.
On the subject of reapping, I understand where others are coming from in that they're afraid that old players will beat out the new. This is certainly understandable, so perhaps there can be a cap on how many returning players you guys will take? In a similar vein, I don't believe that the returning characters should just be limited to 2 if you decide to drop the cast cap for any reason; having only two out of thirty people knowing what they're doing in investigations and trials is going to be a nightmare. While it might be more fun from an OOC standpoint if no one knows what they're doing, ICly it's going to be a headache and we'll get five hours of back-and-forth banter rather than anything actually happening and I'm sure the culprit's player will want to tear their hair out. Four out of thirty is slightly better and I would be fine sticking with this number, or even increasing it a bit (five or six maybe?). The point is that characters (and players) who have been here before know how the game is run, so they can help others figure out how to respond to the investigations/trials. I know it took me weeks to work out how to play properly, so having people there who can help guide the others is definitely a good thing. I also agree with Dal's point that characters should only be appable for two rounds before they're "retired," so to speak.
- Activity. The thing that bothered me most about this round was how characters were rolled completely randomly, taking out some of the more active ones and leaving some inactive ones. I definitely agree that there should be repercussions for not participating in the game, but I feel like there should be some sort of section in the application screening process to get a feel for how the player is going to handle something rapid-fire like the trial. My biggest issue was not the fact that characters weren't showing up, it was that the trials seemed to have all the same faces and it came down to the same characters to come to conclusions. My suggestion is to run a mock trial sometime before the start of the game, where anyone who is interested in apping can come in and tag. Or maybe a mock investigation? I'm not sure, either way it would give new players a feel for how the game is played. I think a section should be required on the app showing that the characters have threaded in either a mock trial/investigation. Unfortunately, this means more work for you guys, but I think this might help in picking players who will be active through the investigations and trials, which are (in my opinion) the most important part of the game. I definitely agree with raising the activity and forcing it to be cross-canon, so hopefully that will help!
- Time. Part of the fun (for me at least) of Dangan Roleplay was how fast it was. Everything moved along very nicely (for the most part) and I wasn't left wondering how to get my character involved (and I played an antisocial jackass). I honestly believe switching to a 3:1 time ratio would make the entire game feel slower and feel like there's nothing to do in the down-time. Sure, you could switch it up and have the 3:1 ratio for trials/investigations and leave the week on a 1:1 day ratio, but that just raises the question of "what day is it??" and that could get really annoying really fast. If you have some way to ensure that the characters have no idea what day it is or what time it is, then that might work better, but honestly I liked the way things were in this round and wouldn't change it. I'm fully aware that not everyone can play in a game like that, however, which while it would cut down on the number of apps, would also leave some potential players very bitter.
- Regains. I'm not sure how you plan on setting it up this time, but honestly I don't think characters should keep their powers or be able to regain them. Part of the fun of the Dangan Ronpa games was that anyone could kill anyone else, there wasn't an obvious power imbalance. If we have superpowered characters running around with the ability to melt someone's mind, then yeah, we're going to run into problems. Maybe the character(s) wouldn't use their power(s) to kill someone because it would be too obvious. That's all well and good, but what if the death is an accident or in self-defense? It would be stupid to think that a character with powers like that would immediately default to using a knife when they could just blast someone in the brain and kill them. This would make the investigation and trial easy and would remove all the suspense the investigations/trials usually bring. Basically, I don't see any reason for characters to have powers. If there's something I'm overlooking here, please let me know, but I just don't see the point in letting characters keep their powers.
For item regains, I'd impose the same sort of limit - you can't obtain weapons from canon. Full stop. Magical items are a bit hit or miss, so I would talk to the players before deciding whether or not an item can be brought in. So basically, anything that can be used as a weapon: no, anything else: yes. I think it's also important to note on the app that character regains don't need to be serious items, they can be gag items and things that a character wouldn't want to regain. The last thing we want is someone trying to smuggle in super high powered weapons or godly abilities in the form of items just to have them. What it comes down to is that all the characters should be on equal footing.
- Emergency Out. I agree completely with Dal and Katar; having a way to leave the game if something comes up IRL should definitely be something the mods consider. However, I feel it is incredibly important that players realize just how much time and effort this game takes to play. Perhaps adding a section in the app that asks for what times a player is available will help you in deciding if the player would be a good fit for the game? Someone who isn't available on the weekends might not be a good choice, for example, but you have no way of knowing that until the game gets started. So I'd suggest including a section on the app that asks for time zone and what hours the player is available during a normal week. Obviously unforeseen things come up, and if it's once or twice that's fine, but skipping out on the trials every week is a huge problem.
- Characters. Unpopular opinion time, but I seriously think that you guys should limit the number of "good" characters. It's great to have characters who will try to get everyone to hold hands and sing, but when it comes down to it, this is a murder game. If we have a cast of characters composed of entirely people who would refuse to kill for any but the most noble of reasons, it's going to be a repeat of this round, which honestly, wasn't as entertaining as it could be. It got to a point where I was like "oh, another altruistic killer" and was severely disappointed. I'm not saying the entire cast should be genocidal maniacs and warmongers, but keeping a balance in mind when you're going through the apps would be a good idea. Of course, this doesn't work if the players all app good guys, so hopefully players will consider this and app more morally gray characters in the next round. Characters like Lysandre are perfect: they get along well with everyone else and form friendships and seem like they wouldn't hurt anyone... and then they turn around and commit the most gruesome murder in the game because they're actually really twisted. I'd love to see more characters like that, but general jerks are always good too. Basically, I thought this round was made up of characters who were entirely too good for the situation they were put in and it lead to predictable murders. Maybe next time consider letting Maya or Sam get away with things and killing at least one or two people!
...Okay I'm just going to end this now before I come up with something else to say. I'm sorry this is so long and thank you guys for reading through all this!
SWORD PART 2
And regarding my earlier "emergency out" statement, now that I've talked it out on Plurk, I'll just clear things up here: I was not prepared this time around because it was the test run, but I agree that anyone coming in after this point should expect a fast, draining game. After all, the weekly AC requirements you're proposing are equal to the monthly requirements in the games that I've been active in recently, and you know what? I think with as fast as the game went for most, there'd be no problems with a cast hitting that in their stride.
But people should still be aware, from this point forward, that this game moves very quickly. Backtags are still possible, but expect a turnout of a 500-1000 comment thread a week just on the trials/investigation alone. (This is just as much a "caveat emptor" to the mods, who would have a better idea if and when the game would need to account for post bloat)
Also, I want to just clear up that I really did enjoy this game, as stressful as it was for me. You guys are doing awesome, and I have no regrets; I'm just highly skilled at complaining. :V
no subject
Things I thought were awesome:
-The weekly logs were great from an organizational standpoint, and I liked that, between exploring new locations and the absurd shit Monobear and Monomi pulled, there was always something going on to keep the game from getting stagnant.
-Even as an outsider, I could tell that you guys were really willing to work with player ideas for both weekly island plots and intricate murders. I think that allowing for more planning time is a great idea, because it allowed for some great shit like the John+Aradia and Lysandre+Archer+Jumba murders, as well as Sam's completely awesome long con.
-I'm kind of sad that it doesn't seem like Monomi is going to be around next time because god fuckin damnit I loved her. I mean, Monobear was great too, but Monomi was able to have more of an actual relationship with the cast in a way that Monobear really couldn't? It's kind of hard to put into words, but anyway she was handled very well as an NPC and she was a blast to watch.
-I think it was pretty awesome that the characters were basically afforded the ability to become the Dangan Ronpa Avengers at the end. Avengronpas? I am kind of excited to see where that goes.
I mean there's plenty more but if I keep going this is going to get gushy SO
Potential improvements:
-I agree with Redd on really liking the fast, chaotic pace of the trials, but I do think the investigation stage could stand to be buffed a little more. I also feel like there should maybe be some IC incentive for altruistic characters not to confess so quickly? There's a lot of despair in watching a basically good person get brutally executed, but outside of reveals it doesn't make for very fun trials. At the very least, I feel like there should be way to work things out so the more well intentioned murderers turn out more like John.
-I also really like Redd's idea of having mock investigations/trials as test drive kinds of things because A) it does sound like a good way of seeing if the game's a good fit for you and B) it sounds fun as hell and I would love to get a piece of that sweet mystery solvin' action even if I don't get my app in before slots fill.
-I have kind of mixed feelings on the canon Dangans' involvement towards the end... I think if I had to compare it to something, it would be kind of roughly the issues everyone complains about with regard to Ace Attorney 4? Like, I really liked the characters' narrative and how they were worked into the plot and everything was super great, but I feel like they kind of stole the show from the player characters. That doesn't sound like it will be as much of a problem in future rounds, but I think it's something to keep in mind if there's a decision to make Avengronpas important NPCs or something like that.
ALSO I agree with the general sentiment of having more consequence for the dead characters. Everyone being okay gave me the warm fluffies but at the same time I'm glad to hear next rounds won't end with sunshine and rainbows. I like the alternate solutions that Silvie proposed up above, though I think permadeath could have interesting implications too, so long as there is some kind of Recycle Bin type thing.
-Speaking of stuff regarding returning players/characters... I have absolutely no objection to players returning provided they're not, like, given special preference or anything like that. I mean, I doubt that would be a problem, but you know.
Buuuut I kind of want to lean towards encouraging apping different characters from round 1? I was planning on arguing in favor of "characters from round 1 should be NPC only," but the more I think about it the more I get both sides of the argument. I feel like having an entirely new cast of characters played by a mix of new and returning players would fit the flavor of Dangan Ronpa a little more, but with amnesia and the rest of the cast being different I think it would still be a fresh experience. HM HM HM.
-Speaking of things tangentially related to character limits, I think either keeping the limit at three or bumping it down to two would work out nicely. I don't think the issues with some characters being kind of insular I'd be okay with lone cannon warrioring it up, but I think (limited) castmate potential can spice things up a bit. Four feels like a little too much, though.
Anyway that's all I can think of for now. I apologize if any of that was rambly or kind of wishy-washy...
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TRIALS: Basically, this is, aside from how all the characters in the game play off each other, the meat and potatoes of the series. While I don't think they deserved a lot of flack they received, I would like to point out that there was a problem in need of addressing. Having a few characters here and there confess to murdering someone is fine. It makes sense for some characters. However, the majority of the trials should involve a lot of discussion and figuring out who did what. Confessing early or hand outs should be done as sparingly as possible.
EVIDENCE: I'm really glad Dal pointed out that culprits create evidence lists, because this was one of the problems I noticed. While I agree that the culprits should work with the victims to plot out what happened, ultimately the mods should be there as well to discuss how it would all go down. I'm not saying they should take control of the entire situation, but there should, at the very least, be enough evidence to pin the blame on the culprit...as well as a few red herrings along the way. No fun if every case is cut and dry.
DEATHROLL: A+ on expanding on how long people have to plot it out.
REGAINS: Throwing a plus one at what Red said. I really don't think powers or weapons should be regained at all. In DR all the characters stood on an equal ground. Yes Sakura was the world's strongest fighter and could have probably killed any of the characters in the game by sneezing too hard (same with Nidai), but might isn't everything. Characters who are good at manipulating can lead even the toughest characters to their deaths (hi Gundam and Celes), while even the dumbest of blockheads can get lucky and pull something off.
Titles really don't have anything to do with powers anyway, so it's not like they'd lose out a SHSL title because they weren't packing heat vision or a weapon. Unless they were like a SHSL swords(wo)man/sniper/whatever, but weapons could always be found in-game. Plus it'd set up some great possible red-herrings.
CHARACTERS: Red pretty much said it best in regards to the whole "keep an eye out for who apps", so I'll just toss another plus one her way. Maybe add a section on the apps that asks how would your character function in the game? They're screened, so I don't think this would be a problem.
A bit off topic, but while speaking about characters I'd also like to say that I think you shouldn't raise the amount of characters per canon, but lower it down to one or two unless the characters don't actually know each other due to having never interacted, but that's a case by case basis. Company's a different story, however. No reason why we can't have like four Capcoms or four Nintendos or what have you. They'd still be total strangers unless crossovers had happened.
MOTIVES: All I can say here is don't be afraid to make more personalized motives. Or even have a fake motive, while the real ones are spread out to a select few due to reasons. Most of them were pretty forgettable.
ENDGAME: Overall it felt very weak. From the NPCs coming in to save the day, to Junko being the mastermind yet again, to all the characters living, etc. I would have been fine with it even if it was predictable, but I felt as though the player characters got overshadowed significantly. Glad to see you're reducing it significantly, but it'd be nice if the mastermind this time around was one of the players. Would've been a great curve-ball.
ANYWAY, thoughts aside I really did enjoy watching it and I'm hoping that round 2 turns out to be even better than round 1!
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OKAY SO about returning characters, after thinking about it I'm absolutely okay with this. I think my initial misgivings came from kind of overestimating how many people were returning in general, but it seems like there will be a decent amount of guaranteed slots for new people. Plus, like I said, it's bound to be a fresh experience and things can go in totally different directions!
However, I think I would agree with the retirement clause for the reasons mentioned beforehand, and one that I'm not sure will work out in practice but might to be good to consider. I think that if a character that was a murderer or a victim in a previous round, it would be a good idea to have them default to the opposite in the next round they're apped? Like, say, if John was reapped and he was rolled, he would automatically be a victim unless it realllly didn't make sense.
Also about the cast limit thing... I think I'm going to have to disagree with the observation that characters that were part of a cast were more insular than LCWs, because out of the four canons that had more than one representative, I only noticed three that were really a problem. With the two casts that had three members, the Homestucks were basically everywhere by the end of the game and the Ace Attorneys seemed to interact outside their casts more than inside their casts. I'm not going to say there weren't problems with characters being insular but I don't think it was cast related? I mean, it could end up cast related, but I don't think it was with the three character limit.
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I am very much interested in seeing how memory loss is going to play a role in the plot of Round 2, and how it will affect certain characters; I'm sure that given the popularity of the roleplay, we will see plenty of newcomers interact with the maximum of four veterans who will be returning, which is perfect and keeps the cast fresh and exciting. Thankfully, the fact that returning players will have their memories wiped of the events of Round 1 by obligation will definitely settle any concerns regarding the experiences of newcomers being ruined by returning characters that let too much slip...the fact that memories will be regained slowly will also probably give away however much is necessary for the plot to progress. I'm sure both mods and returning players will use this aspect of the game intelligently and advantageously, resulting in quite a few interesting and despair-inducing scenarios! However, the fact that there are going to be 30 characters playing this round seems like it's going to be quite interesting and chaotic; I do look forward to seeing how it unfolds.
It is a relief to hear, though, that NPC involvement will be drastically reduced in Round 2; I, too, believed that the finale in particular was NPC-heavy to a fault, and though I understand that this was necessary in playing towards an ending akin to Super Dangan Ronpa 2's, an ending that is more dependent upon the players than the actions of the Future Foundation and their understudies. I was also somewhat disappointed that the ending played out so similarly to SDR2's; while I get that this was intentional, and it put a bit of an original spin on Chapter 6 from the second game, I would have loved to see some major and unique individual twists and turns that I know you Super Duper High School Mods and Super High School Level Roleplayers are capable of providing! You are all incredibly talented and extraordinary people, with amazing potential. I am hooked on seeing what you guys have in store for Round 2, and hope to join you all on this most despairingly maleficent and monstrous malefaction of a roleplay, filled with, as Monokuma would put it, thrills, chills, and kills! Let's get this ball rolling~!